Rachel Gauvin: All right. Welcome, everybody. We have more folks rolling in, but I think we should get started.
Thanks for being here. Itโs the webinar: โIntelligent Media Formulation Using Machine Learning.โ Weโre really excited to be here and share this information with you โ great group of panelists, some great information to share.
For those of you who have been with us for all three webinars, thank you. Weโre really excited that we have this trilogy here for you. But, just in case you arenโt aware, we had a great webinar in September called โBetter Media, Better Outcomesโ and one in November, โFaster Media, Faster Outcomes,โ both of which are available on our website under our Education tab. So
highly recommend taking a look at that. Weโll do a quick recap today. But it will be great โ itโs great content for everyone to have background for today.
And, today, weโre, like I said, talking about intelligent media formulation using machine learning. Quick question for you all here. We are curious, and youโll see why later on, but what cell types do you work with? And what are your critical quality attributes or your CQAs? So, if everyone wants to take a moment and just answer a couple questions hereโฆ
Great. I see T cells, dendritic, MSCs popping up high. Thatโs exciting, and the critical quality attributes pretty set across the board with proliferation and viability being up top. Iโll leave this up for another moment or so. But, yeah, pretty good distribution with all the cells and CQAs. Thatโs interesting. Yeah, proliferation and viability are way up there.
All right. Well, thanks everyone for that information. If you can share real fast, youโll see HEK cells were just knocked out above, but T cells, MSCs, iPSCs way up there. And then critical quality attributes pretty sat across the weights with proliferation, viability being up top. So thanks for that information. That will help us, and youโll see why in a moment.
All right, yeah, we have a great group of panelists here with us today. And Iโll let each of them introduce themselves. Roddy, why donโt we start with you?
Roddy OโConnor Ph.D: Okay, thanks, Rachel. Hi, everyone. Great to be on board again for the third in our series. Iโm a Research assistant professor for Center for Cellular Immunotherapies, and I really focused on CAR T cell metabolism.
Rachel Gauvin: Alex?
Alex Klarer: Hi, everyone. Glad to be back. Name is Alex Klarer. Iโm the Head of Cell Therapy Development at a CDMO based in Newark called Biocentriq.
Rachel Gauvin: Great, David?
David Smith Ph.D: Hey, everyone. Welcome back. David Smith, VP of Technical Operations for Ori Biotech, a pretty small startup company based out of the UK developing technology hidden on all of these manufacturing problems. Prior to that, run an R&D team at a CDMO devoted to cell therapy.
Rachel Gauvin: Great, and Dave?
David Sheehan: Hi, I am Dave Sheehan. Iโm the Founder and CEO of Nucleus Biologics, and thank you to everybody for attending and really excited to share what weโre doing on the AI platform.
I think one of the things that we really maybe need to get at the heart of is, What problem are we solving? And, every day, thereโs data coming out in peer-reviewed journals that is telling you what components are driving performance of different attributes on your cells, and those attributes affect the final therapy.
And so, on top of that, weโre in this very rapidly growing industry, and time to market is going to be a critical metric for any therapy developer. How fast can they get into the clinic and prove their therapy? And, historically, weโve been hampered as an industry because a lot of the media has been proprietary off-the-shelf. And itโs convenient. I mean, it made a lot of sense on the first-generation cell therapies. But a lot of these formulas are decades old, and in one of our social media feeds, we talked about how an ex vivo was first cited in 1999. It was really designed at the time probably to proliferate the cells. And so not only is the formulation created for a different purpose, but itโs also not disclosed. And so, as a scientist, itโs really difficult to optimize.
And then you look at that in combination with the fact that thereโs just all this advance going on and knowledge around pathways on specific cell types and the number of papers that are out there in the public domain. And itโs overwhelming for a scientist to try and figure out how to optimize their ecosystem. And media is a key component. And, up into this point, thereโs really never been a tool that allows you to do that. Thatโs really based on not anecdotal evidence but proven science.
And so what weโre going to talk about today is NB-AIR. Itโs the only cloud-based AI platform for media configuration thatโs based on peer-reviewed articles and community research. And that is going to be something that we start with and then build off of.
So, maybe, now that weโve covered what the problems are, weโll talk a little bit about and recap some of the prior webinars. Roddy?
Past Webinar Summary
Roddy OโConnor Ph.D: Weโre highlighting one of those 400, 000 papers on T cells. Thatโs our own work. I did mention Iโm very interested in CAR T metabolism and, of course, the metabolic properties of T cells are not fixed. We kind of showed that previously. And, in this kind of figure and paper weโre referring back to, it was really important because we showed that with kind of a physiologic adjusted medium, so culturing T cells ex vivo in this medium, could give rise to progeny that really had enhanced anti tumor potency after we transferred or infused them into a xenograft model, a neuroblastoma. So thatโs really what weโre highlighting there on that slide, that there is better engraftment and cytolitic activity in T cells expanded in this physiologic adjusted medium. So donโt take for granted the qualities of the media, or really conceptually think about it and optimize those qualities, okay?
Yeah, and this does lead us to really one of the central paradoxes that weโre faced with here at Penn, specifically the immediate challenges: How do we improve CAR T cell advocacy in a solid tumor environment?
So, in many models, weโre able to show that CAR T cells, they can effectively infiltrate solid tumors, and theyโre there beside the tumor cells largely present while also largely dysfunctional. So it always leads us back to this complex immunosuppressive aspects of the solid tumor. And you could dive deeper into this, but itโs โ as the figure shows, itโs largely complex that promotes this T cell exhaustive features. But it makes us wonder: What are the qualities that we can convey to the T cells while we have them in our hands? So, while weโre expanding them nine to 14 days ex vivo, what kind of features can we convey to them or can confer to them that will lead to a better anti tumor function following infusion into an environment?
And really we have to consider whatโs been done historically in terms of the medium formulations, and we have kind of touched on that in the previous two webinars. And Iโm going to show you kind of a new, something kind of new, emerging, in the literature about the media formulations and how kind of a correlative feature with a glucose level in the tumor environment.
Weโve touched on this before that within that complex features, that there can be high degree of mitochondrial dysfunction in T cells that do kind of infiltrate and traverse solid tumor environments. And this is really new findings from Greg Delgoffeโs lab. So heโs able to show that considering the glucose levels in media formulationsโฆ and heโs shown previously, and we can see on the figure, on the upper finger there, that when T cells are exposed to glucose levels, very low glucose levels that would be found in the interstitial or extracellular spaces of tumors, that thereโs an impaired mitochondrial function or mitochondrial stress, as measuring that kind of charged separation, of course, the intermittent mitochondrial membrane.
So I just included that figure in the bottom for those who like to dive deeper into that. So that separation of charge is a key determinant of T cell quality, mitochondrial function. And Gregโs lab was able to show that thereโs really shared features of mitochondrial stress if the glucose is very low as what you would see in a tumor or too high as you would see in these kinds of historic medias. And Dave did point out at the start that the historic media formulations were really designed to promote cell viability and propagate large numbers of cells. And I think it doesnโt confer the optimal features to T cells for things like potency, engraftment, less differentiation ex vivo, and enhanced anti-tumor function following infusion. So thereโs a lot of work coming out even just looking at glucose levels in this example and how it impacts T cell mitochondrial function, which is going to be permanent for a high-quality T cell in a solid tumor environment. So Iโll leave it there.
And Iโll leave you off with that, David.
Alex Klarer: So we might beโฆ
David Smith Ph.D: โ Weโll see if we can get through these slides quickly and move on to the next one. But I think, taking from what Roddy said, thereโs obviously a number of key features within your media that is vital to have in there, vital the concentration of it, vital probably the time point during culture that it goes in there. And so I donโt think thatโs sort of up for debate, then really your posed with the question of Do you go for a custom media where youโve got complete control over that, which sounds great but potentially has a long lead time, it can be very costly, and, really, when everyoneโs sort of running to get to the clinic, do we have time to stop, pause, really create the optimum media for ourselves?
The other option is this POTS, proprietary off-the-shelf. And so this is everything obviously that you saw on the slide before regarding sort of aimed five ex vivo examples. So you donโt really know whatโs in them and pretty hard to change whatโs in them. You can obviously do additions, but removing anything isnโt possible. But there is a huge benefit of time, and we know how important that is to everyone. So really up to now what we showed in that first webinar is there is no real perfect solution there.
So, as we moved on to the second webinar, started looking at speed being crucial here, and so something that Nucleus has put together is NB-Lux. So this idea of actually a development time that is equal to that of proprietary off-the-shelf media. So roughly 22 weeks. Thatโs giving you time to test out variants of media within there. So instead of maybe picking the five top companies out there and testing all their media over a couple of weeks, you can do that by just having those built specific for you. So you know exactly whatโs in them. You know the concentrations. You know the variants of everything in there. So sort of really important that they managed to bring the timeline. So now theyโre the same, so time isnโt a factor anymore.
And then itโs cost. So, historically, customโs extremely expensive. Custom of anything in the world is extremely expensive. Then, when you actually break it down, is it really? And so the platform that again Nucleus has managed to build is we can do it faster, often time is equal to money, and so that means that, automatically, is a bit cheaper. But then the idea that they could add every single thing that you need into the formulation. And so now there isnโt a need to go into a clean room to add additional reagents to it at point of use or anything. Youโre not buying from all these different vendors. When you look at your base media, maybe thatโs cheaper, but then youโve got to add your protein sources, youโve got to add cytokines, growth factors, things like that. Itโs actually not that much cheap, so what we saw in that webinar, when we broke down some of the cost analysis, actually, proprietary off-the-shelf generally is about 33% more expensive. And you rule that out, that that might not mean a lot during development. But you start going into commercial scale, where youโre using liters upon liters t that actually an average CAR T therapy this is done off of. It could be about 4 million a year. So now the life cycle of your product, 10, 20, 30, 40 years, that really has a significant effect.
And so now what sort of we managed to show in there is that creating a custom media a, allows you to study single components โ and that may affect your culture โ allows you the IP, the knowledge of everything thatโs in your media, so you can take that anywhere you want, you can have it produced by any manufacturer out there, and it can also save you a lot of money towards the end as well.
So the next bit that we kind of left at the end of that webinar was, โOkay, thatโs great. I have no idea what I need to put into my formulation.โ And youโre asking me and as a lowly engineer that I am, I know that they need some glucose and probably some amino acids and things, but I have no idea what concentration, whatโs important based on the CQAs that Iโm gonna get out there.
So thatโs really [lost signal 00:16:19] and back over to Dave now to generate that knowledge.
Start of Presentation
David Sheehan: So we kind of feel like weโre at this pivot point as an industry, and scientists have been dependent on industry to provide them with proprietary off-the-shelf media and then do testing of multiple proprietary off-the-shelf medias and figure out which one works best. And itโs a very much a black-box approach. But what I think you heard from the first two webinars is changing individual components has a huge impact and, when you do it and you build the media from the ground up, you control it. Itโs your formulation.
And so weโre proud to introduce NB-AIR. And the name NB-AIR comes from Artificial Intelligence Research. And, basically, what weโre doing is weโre saving you time. Weโre putting time that you would use for purposes of researching, how to do iteration, how to optimize your media, and allowing you to use it for other purposes because weโre cutting the formulation time and allowing you to go into what is your cell and your critical quality attributes, figure out exactly which compounds you want in order to drive cell performance.
And itโs based on published papers. So everythingโs from PubMed. Recommend those multiple formulations to you based on concentrations that are extracted from data analysis and then enhance your cell performance and ultimately your therapy by allowing rapid ordering and testing of formulations that are going to allow you to identify those key performance contributors to your ecosystem.
And so the idea is you may โ by going through this process, it doesnโt replace your wet lab work; it just makes it a lot more efficient. And how are we doing that? Thereโs three primary components. One, we have a machine learning algorithm that searches PubMed articles for cell types, critical quality attributes, and compounds. We basically go through and parse out the conclusion of the research paper and score the article and the contribution to the critical quality attributes. And then we use machine learning, and the machine learning basically recommends formulas based on what the input was from the user.
And so what Iโm going to do now is step you through what it looks like. And Iโm going to stop sharing for a second and pull up the actual live site. Can everybody see this? Okay, so what we wanted to do with this was create a very simple user interface. And thereโs a lot โ donโt โ understand that behind this, thereโs a lot of work going on. Thereโs a lot of databasing and a lot of machine learning algorithms that are supporting this. But, right away, you see thereโs four steps. You pick a cell type, you pick a critical quality attribute, you click your components, and then you output formulas.
And so, for cell types, we heard multiple versions. You can pick really any cell type. You can pick T cells and K cells, and each one is going to have a different distribution of components that have been studied based on CQAs. And, in this case, for this example, Iโm going to pick NK cells. And you can also input in here what media youโve been using historically. And, for us, thatโs just helpful because it guides us on what to do. So, even if youโre using a proprietary mediaโฆ
And then over here is a reference to the components and what they do to the CQA and an impact score. And Iโll explain a little bit about that. So, once youโve picked your cell, you move on to the next step, and you can pick your CQAs. And we heard from the poll at the beginning that there were several critical CQAs. It sounded like probably viability was one of the top ones. And, again, you click on viability. You want to maintain or increase that.
And, what you see here, often this side is the side panel, is which are the components that most contribute to this critical quality attribute? And the green increases, and the red decreases, while the yellow maintains. And thereโs information in all of that. But then whatโs relevant here is that thereโs actually a link to the research paper. So, if you want to know exactly what that research paper said, you can click on this link, and itโll take you through to the research paper, or you can just review the quote that we pulled out.
And so the idea is that you can go in and select multiple components. The other one that we heard that was pretty big was proliferation. Usually people want to increase that. So you pick increase and probably cytotoxicity, given this NK cells, and you want to increase that. You can also rank the importance of each one of these. So you have pulldown menus on rank on each one of it. But you can see that, for cytotoxicity, all the components that have a contribution to it, and then the score, which in this case is set up to be the max of 100, and itโs not an indication of how impactful that component is on that cell as much as it is an indication of the number of times that that components been studied on that CQA and how many papers reference it. So itโs an indication of the strength of the component based on a review of the literature.
And so once youโve picked all of your critical quality attributes and selected what you want, the next step is to move on to picking your media, your media base, and also all of your components. And so is the chat thing popping up on the screen?
Rachel Gauvin: Yeah, we have some questions coming in Iโd like to discuss later.
David Sheehan: I know thereโs a lot of chats going on, butโฆ And, so here, you can select media. You can actually select the most cited, the second most cited, or what we recommend, or you can put your own base in here. And so for this circumstance, then you can go in and say, โOkay, what components do I want to search?โ Well, clearly, in the prior presentation, IL-15 was big, IL-2 was big, IL-7, PDGF, and guanosine.
And you can see each one of them and where theyโre mentioned. And these are all individual references of papers. And the papers pop up over here. So this is like a meta-analysis. This is giving you the ability to weed through thousands of articles and distill it down into something where you can know exactly which components you want to add to your media formulation.
And then once youโve selected the component, the last step is to go to the formula. And so what we do in this step is we list up on the top what are your critical quality attributes. And then you can go in and select the formulas, but what weโre giving you is a recommended concentration based on the published papers. And so you can kind of see where are we coming out on each one of these. And whatโs really nice about this is that you can name these. And so you can save that. And what ends up happening is, once youโve looked at this, you can make modifications or save all these formulations directly to NB-Lux and then order them.
And so Iโll show you that functionality here. NB-Lux is our online portal. So now that youโve got the four different formulations, this will take you over. The formula have all been saved. Theyโre now in NB-Lux, which is our platform for configuring and ordering media. And you can go in and open this one and basically customize exactly what you want. So, if you want to customize it, you can go in and make modifications while that price looks a little bit high. But, basically, you can go in and select exactly what you want.
And so once youโre done with that, you can save it. And thatโs in your profile.
So now you can order these or modify the formulas if you want to.
Okay, great. So let me stop share for a second, and Iโll go back to the slides.
So, basically, again, to highlight, you pick your cell, you pick your CQAs, you pick your base and your components, you finalize your formulations, and then you export to NB-Lux. And you can order them in any size from two liters to anything up to 2000 liters.
And then Iโm going to turn it over to Alex, and heโs going to talk a little bit about how we go about creating this analysis tool and what kind of learning modules weโre using.
Alex Klarer: Thanks, David. So when Dave and the Nucleus team first showed me this, you see all of the options you have here to select your cell, your current culture media basal medium that youโre using, the different media components that you might be interested in implementing or may already have as part of your media, and your desired CQAs, and the algorithm is going to give you a new formulation that you could try and test.
And the big question from that is how is it generating this recommendation? And what criteria is it using to determine what might be an increase or decrease or maintain on that web chart that you saw in the demonstration? And it turns out this is actually a very intuitive process and itโs โ augments what we already do when doing a lit review on any topic for instance.
So, on the next slide here, what this confidence score is itโs a relative value of the potential of that component like Dave described. And, just like if you were to go through and review these papers, it weighs the contribution of that paper by the impact score of the journal it was published in and the number of references. And so you can imagine having yourself or a PhD level scientist spend hours to review hundreds of papers on this subject, and what theyโre doing is implicitly creating this impact score. And theyโll use that to decide what components and the media composition is for the screening study that they want to run.
And the machine learning that Nucleus has implemented is providing that entire screening process upfront and saving you those hours of review, and allowing you to get an idea of where your focus should be before even starting that process. And you saw in the demonstration also that it provides you those papers. And so it guides you in the choices that youโre making, following the process that you would already be using. And, that way, you end up with a high confidence in the formulation that you end up with.
And you can pre-screen a weight, low impact papers, a low impact conclusions, without having to spend the additional time to do that. What it doesnโt provide is a quantitative magnitude of the effects. It only provides that relative confidence in the direction. Itโs a qualitative look at what the impact of each component might be.
And so when you combine the Nucleus Biologics ecosystem, you see that the NB-AIR helps you with that initial screening process and determine what media you should be using, you should be experimenting with, at the beginning in the NB-Lux platform, then takes that learning and gives you a process to purchase and receive that media in a timely manner.
So Iโve been looking at some of the questions in the chat and โHow are you speeding up the developments?โ And it does start with the NB-AIR process to remove a large portion of that literature review process, and then the NB-Lux platform then takes all of that learning and gives you your pre-formulated medium in the same time periods that you would expect to get proprietary off-the-shelf media.
And then they also have the Krakatoa system, which is coming soon, that would augment your end usersโ ability to store and have at their fingertips these custom formulations.
David Sheehan: So I think itโs probably worthwhile to โ thanks, Alex โ go through Q&A, and I might loop back and make sure everybody understands. NB-Lux has been in the marketplace for over a year. It is an active site. And you can order any media. And you can order from sizes from two liters to 2000 liters. So that capability exists and the two-liter ordering is typically weeks in order to get small lot on media, and thatโs part of one of the key differentiators.
Do we want to maybe take questions now, orโฆ
Rachel Gauvin: Sure thing. Yeah, we have a number of questions. Iโll try and get through them all but be respectful of time.
Q&A Session
The first question here is The information gathered from research papers, does it take into account patent content that may have licensing fees around the concepts or component concentration?
David Sheehan: It doesnโt right now, and itโs looking at PubMed. But, historically, most manufacturers have not patented formulas. They keep them as trade secrets.
Rachel Gauvin: The next question is For additional cell types not discussed today, is there a critical mass of literature that must be available to provide useful recommendations? How easily can additional cell types be added, like macrophages, monocytes, and this like?
David Sheehan: Yeah, now that weโve figured it out, itโs fairly straightforward to do that. And I think what you saw today, the run through on the NK cells, there was clearly a bug in one of the concentrations because of the price that came across. But, I think, for us, adding additional cells is really just listening to our customers on whatโs important and what cell types do they want to see.
Rachel Gauvin: Thank you. Next question is Do you provide information on material sources for the raw components that go into our NB-Lux formulations?
David Sheehan: We do. And so one of the โ and maybe Iโll stop share for a second and go back to NB-Lux. So you have an option. So I think this was the formula that we priced out, and Iโm gonna guess that thereโs something off on one of the concentrations here, but you can load this into the Customizer and probably seeโฆ All right, so we โ 10 billion dollars. Iโm gonna guess itโs probably one of the cytokines. And, yeah, sure enough, IL-2 is off. So you never would put that much IL-2 into aโฆ but itโs probably more like 0.0001. Okay, that makes sense.
So now youโre getting the idea. All of these raw materials, you can select USP grade. And then if you want cGMP manufacturing, you can select it here, and it allows you to basically โ will give you a full spec package. So youโll know basically all the ingredients. And so you can not only select the grade, but you can also select the documentation level.
Rachel Gauvin: Great, thanks. Next question: Is there a possibility to search for specific cellular subsets, such as gamma, delta T, or regulatory T cells? And, if not, are there plans to extend the functionality to include the expanded function?
David Sheehan: Yeah, again, if anyone has cells they want to look at, we can always do that functionality. As long as thereโs published articles, the machine learning algorithm has the potential to harvest anything thatโs in the public domain.
Rachel Gauvin: Great. Back to documentation a little bit: Do you help clients that need a Drug Master File or DMF file?
David Sheehan: We do, yeah, and a great example is we manufacture a protein called Physiologix, and we will frequently create technical documentation packets for customers that are submitting for a BLA or any kind of IND.
Rachel Gauvin: Great. Switching gears and going back to the critical quality attributes, On the CQA metabolism, can you explain a little bit more about that? Obviously, metabolism is a large field, and this is much more involved than, say, viability?
David Sheehan: Hey, can you ask the question again? Iโmโฆ
Rachel Gauvin: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about the critical quality attribute of metabolism? Itโs a larger field and more involved than, say, viability.
David Sheehan: Maybe, Roddy is in-, โ
Roddy OโConnor Ph.D: โ Yeah, so definitely one of my interests. So youโre exactly right. Itโs changing every day, and itโs quite a rabbit hole. You could just dive into and drown basically. So I think thereโs a great opportunity when you use this platform to identify kind of the latest and greatest cytokines.
Letโs say that weโre using here at Pennโฆ so the field of adoptive T cell therapy is moving away from IL-2. And, okay, whatโs the suggestions to go to? So you could use this platform to maybe get a hint of what people are using and not just that but what concentration will be optimal to use. So thatโs always going to be a hot new area, the type of cytokines to condition the media during this ex vivo phase.
We have spoke a lot about the glucose. So itโs simple energy source for cells, but look at the complexity of altered levels. So this is ideal once again. It gives you all the insights and papers into do you want higher levels to boost proliferation, or do you want any trade off with quality? You saw the impact of mitochondrial stress. So there must be a sweet spot. What would you like based on the attributes that you want? So thatโs just two prime examples: the cytokine conditioning factors and glucose levels. And thereโs a ton more. You name it. The info will be there, and the insight will be there. So itโs just a great platform.
Rachel Gauvin: Thanks, Roddy. Question: Could your platform give recommendations for establishing a serum free formulation, given that most of the study published are based on cells grown in media formulations containing serum?
David Sheehan: Yeah, I think it will. What weโve seen is that thereโs in the โ our work with the AI platform, thereโs a lot of growth factors that are being indicated, and thatโll start to send you down a path of either reduced serum or serum elimination, once you understand the growth factors that are driving the cell performance. And so in the example that I gave, we picked some cytokines, but we also picked one growth factor, and there were other growth factors that were listed in NK cells. So I think thatโs the benefit of the platform is itโs telling you all of the research thatโs been done. And if you start to put some of these together in different combinations and test them, the idea is that this becomes a rapid iteration tool.
Rachel Gauvin: Yeah, and this one was addressed in the webinar somewhat, but I think itโd be nice to maybe summarize again. The question here is Classic media development takes normally years, how can Nucleusโs approach help media development? So if we just want to drive that point home?
David Sheehan: Yeah, I think, part of what this does is it shortens โ I think the key with media development is figuring out whatโs most important. If you want to test everything, you could be in a Do Loop on iterations. And one of the things โ and, Roddy and I, weโve worked together with our science team to develop formulations, and itโs knowing when to put your pencils down and say this is good enough. And I think what weโve been able to do is figure out how do we use the AI platform to inform which components to focus on. And itโs easy to create the perfect formulation, but it may be 70 or 80 or more components, and itโs not manufacturable. Itโs focusing on the things that are absolutely critical and getting rid of those components that donโt really contribute.
Roddy, any thoughts on that?
Roddy OโConnor Ph.D: I mean, I think we have โ I totally agree. Weโve done a lot of work on it, and to address another โ it hits on another question, maybe on optimal CAR T cell media. Weโve worked maybe a year and a half on this. So thatโll be coming out soon, NB ROC, soโฆ and itโsโฆ weโve just been going through this exact process, looking at the factors that are present, what levels are they, and what will be optimal to confer these qualities to T cells expanded ex vivo. And like, you say, eventually, you do have to put the pencils down and test it out and really where the rubber meets the road, kind of, right? Soโฆ
David Sheehan: Yeah, and I think itโs worth saying we did that development prior to having the AI platform. So there was a lot of trial and error and โ
Roddy OโConnor Ph.D: โ old school.
Rachel Gauvin: Too funny. Great. Quick question here. Just, Do you sell CAR T cells and media together or separate?
Roddy OโConnor Ph.D: Yeah. We donโt. Well, we donโt sell CAR T cells, but the media that weโve optimized for CAR T cells will be available from Nucleus Biologics, NB ROC.
David Sheehan: Yeah, and just so everybody knows, weโre going to put that formulation on NB-Lux, so youโll be able to see the formulation. And this is part of being transparent and making sure everybodyโs aware of it. And I did get a question: When will this site go live? Itโll probably be live within the next day or two. We wanted to do this webinar first so that everybody could understand exactly what it is. Weโll put this recording up online, so you can go back and look at it, and then the site will be going live.
Rachel Gauvin: Great, and then can you speak a little bit, Dave, about the pricing model?
David Sheehan: Yeah, the idea that we wanted to do was encourage use. And so itโs a price per year for use. And for academics itโs 950 a year and for industry itโs 5000.
The idea is once you use or sign on to it, you actually will have credit so that if you do want to buy media and transfer those formulas into NB-Lux, youโll be able to buy the media and will credit you for the fee for access to NB-AIR.
Rachel Gauvin: Great. And then a question, Does NB-AIR cover only information on PubMed or published books as well?
David Sheehan: Yeah, weโre figuring out how to access everything in the public domain, and weโre also incorporating our own research. And, ultimately, what we want to do is build more of a community where the people who are logging into the system can also give feedback. So thatโs kind of phase two, is to increase the level of functionality and create more of a knowledge base that people can tap into.
Rachel Gauvin: Great.
David Sheehan: Especially with the pace with which โ I mean, Roddy talked about it that Greg Delgoffeโs glucose information just came out in December. And so things are happening so fast. We want to get that information into the hands of the scientist as quickly as possible.
Rachel Gauvin: Yeah. Uhโฆ
David Sheehan: And I would also say weโre doing a lot of wet lab formulation work, and so if you need help with formulations, we do a lot of it. The way we do our formulation, our wet lab formulation work, is if you pay us for it, itโs your formula, you own the IP, we donโt own anything about it. And all the work thatโs done on NB-Lux is scrubbing published literature or our own research that we did. So the wet lab formulation work is just a service that we offer, and weโve built out quite a capability around that.
Rachel Gauvin: Yeah. Dave, if you want to put up the Q&A slide again, thereโs a little bit more information on how people can access that, which might be useful. Great. And one other question we have that came in is How accurate/optimal are the exact values of each component in the formulation? Is the idea that the platform is best used to identify these components, and we go through several iterations to find the best concentration of each component?
David Sheehan: Yeah, itโs a great question, and itโs one thing weโll learn as we get into it, is โ Clearly on that NK cell example, the IL-2 concentration was off, and weโll fix that. But the idea is those are the concentrations that are listed in the article, and then what weโll recommend and start to build algorithmically is the ability to recommend doses around that level based on a more in-depth view of what the concentrations are that have been used in the different papers.
Roddy OโConnor Ph.D: Yeah, I think thatโll save a lot of time for people, right? If they can get close to a ballpark figure, that they could then maybe optimize themselves, or at least they know whatโs โ no reviewer would look at their paper and say, โOh, youโre way off. This is exactly what people are using for IL-2 for T cells. For IL-7 and IL-15, itโs 10 nanograms per mil.โ So itโs great to have that, even if youโre just an information addict, to be able to look at the platform and see that rather than diving through so many papers and scratching your head, โWell, is this right. Is that right?โ So itโs a good help.
David Sheehan: Right, and I think itโs a great โ and coming back to the glucose analogy, Roddy, itโs like, if glucose is truly at really low concentrations and at really high concentrations not good for mitochondrial stress, where is that sweet spot? And we know that a lot of the proprietary off-the-shelf medias have very high glucose levels and not physiologic. So definitely figuring out where is that. Is it five millimolar? Is it 10 millimolar? What is that level thatโs really where you want to be?
Rachel Gauvin: Yeah, and then thereโs a question kind of on the logistics of getting access to the account, which I can answer. In order to access NB-AIR, you have to have an NB-Lux account. So we encourage everyone to go in even today to sign up for NB-Lux. And then, from there, in a day or two, as Dave said, weโll be ready to add on the layer on the feature of NB-AIR. So thatโs kind of how everything is interconnected.
I think that addresses all of the questions that weโve been given. If I missed anything, feel free to type that into the Q&A or chat, but like we said, we would love everyone to sign up for NB-Lux so that you can get access to NB-AIR in the next day or two. And weโre really excited about this launch and really appreciate your time in joining us.
David Sheehan: Thank you. Thank you, everybody. And thank you to the panelists.
Roddy OโConnor Ph.D: Thank you, guys. It was great.
David Smith Ph.D: Thanks, everyone.
Rachel Gauvin: Thanks, everyone. Have a great day.
Alex Klarer: Thank you.